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Lukáš_Altner| Lukáš_Altner 8/6/2018 01:23:22
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Edited by Lukáš_Altner at 8/6/2018 01:45 AM

It's been some time since the last big update that contained biggest skills changes and balancing.
Unfortunatelly for me the biggest nerfs were made for Liliana which is my main and at first I was really angry then I calmed down tried some other item builds and such and still tried to play her but damn she is so bad at everything compared to others.

1) Her "ultimate" reiki shot is absolutelly impossible to use in 5v5 it needs special requirements to be even activated which forces me to be close to the enemy then it takes eternity to cast and it can be canceled by literally everything so since I'm close there is nothing easier than interupt it by any stun/knockback/grip or just kill me and then if I manage to cast it by some miracle it moves so slow that everyone who has boots (so everyone) can run away from it. And I'm not even talking about cancerous characters like Flash, Murad, Wukong, Zill that just randomly turn invisible for like 2seconds and nothing happens when it hits them.

2) Her movement speed in fox form was reduced in that update so now she is slower in fox form than some fat tanks which is really stupid. I admit she can kind of blink when changing forms but that cannot be used randomly just for movement speed during fight.

3) Duration of her only control ability was reduced to 0.75sec so when someone is wearing Gilded Greaves it's just 0.56sec which is not even blink of an eye it's hardly a stun it's just an interupt. While other characters having stuns or other disables like: Diaochan 2.5sec / Xeniel 1.25sec / Veera 1.5sec / Gildur 3.5sec / Grakk 3sec / Aleister 3sec / Roxie 2.5sec / Azzen'ka stuns you forever and Valhein, Omega, Alice and some other characters don't even have duration of the stun written in description.

So my suggestion is either give Liliana same kind of shield when casting her ult as Natalya has that prevents being controlled or make Reiki shot instant cast or give Liliana better movement speed or give her better control. As she is now she has good damage potencial but that potencial cannot be realized in 99% of the cases because she can be overcontrolled and overun by anyone and any other mage/assassin/marskman will melt her down faster than she casts Reiki shot since she is a squishy mage. She could be used only if enemy had no control abilities and her team had all the control abilities then she would be able to unleash her potencial but that will never happen. Her only strenght is in chaining abilities properly which is already sketchy playtyle and leaves her open.

So I still don't really get the reason behind nerfing Liliana so much while not even touching stuff like Murad that just teleports on you gives you hit for half of HP while being invisible so you can't fight back he even slows you down and then teleports back without receiving any damage and nobody cares. Assassins are generally way too powerful compared to the other classes and you can't have team full of tanks to counter the assassins. So next time please nerf these invisible bullcraps and not enjoyable character that is just being average and sketchy to play. Thanks

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From_Hell| From_Hell 8/18/2018 13:28:50
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I am surprised to see this. I have recently picked up Liliana and can’t help but think: god she is over powered.

Let me back up. I am used to playing traditional mages like Azzen’Ka, Krixi, Maganga, etc. All of them as you know don’t move at all and with the addition of attack, damage, tank, carry, mega kill characters like Rourke their strength (CC effects) might as well not exist at all. I think compared to other characters like Rourke, Batman, superman, and Flash Liliana is balanced and does not need any buff.

I don’t know what your thing against assassins is about since LILIANA IS AN ASSASSIN but compared to other characters, Murad takes a lot of skill and even then is a bust against a good team.

In terms of characters that need buffs, Liliana can get in line. What do I mean by this? Well, in the new meta there are characters that aren’t or are barely playable. Here’s a short list.

- Azzen’Ka
- Peura
- Wisp
- Moren?
- Marja
- Veera
- Diaochan
- Krixi
- Aleister
- Fennik
- Kricknack
- Ignis
And so on.

Really Mage/Assassins and Warrior/ADC/Tank/Assassin dominate meta in a heavy handed fashion (I count Tulen as a Mage/Assassin and Joker as an Marksman/Assassin and Superman as Warrior/Tank/Assassin). What do I mean by this? Well a good Rourke or Superman can force a victory against a team without one. Literally nothing can be done to stop them. Other characters like Batman and Flash also can preform to close to the same caliber hence they are subject to insta banning. Lindis who is feeling more and more like a physical damaging mage/Assassin also has a dominant presence in the meta. The small frys like Murad, Butterfly, Zill, and Nakroth really need be paid no heed in the nerfing world. Do I think the aforementioned small frys need buffing? No since they are ultimately useable, but they aren’t even close to being broken despite being all assassins.

Bottom line, Liliana got a nerf she deserved, she might even need to be watered down a little more. I hope they continue to nerf characters who steal too much spotlight. Hell, I don’t really care if they nerf some of them to oblivion, because I have seen too many games with Skud, Superman, Rourke, etc simply dominating the match with no rival.
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Lukáš_Altner|  Author| Lukáš_Altner 9/3/2018 07:24:43
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Point number 1) was not negated by you so it still stands point number 2) was not negated as well  so it’s the same and the point number 3) can’t be negated because that is a fact and yes murad is kind of lacking in 5v5 but in 3v3 he is god if played properly same with the other cases I mentioned this game does not have only one mode and I play 3v3 as well. And last but not least: Liliana is not an assassin she is primarly a mage and secondary an assassin she does not have an assassin arcana nor item builds it’s like saying Marja is a tank because she can lifesteal a little but we all know she is not even tho it’s written in her role as secondary class.
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From_Hell| From_Hell 9/28/2018 23:49:58
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Edited by From_Hell at 10/21/2018 09:48 PM

Your whining over nothing. She still has a range longer than most mage assassins, more mobility than every other mage but Tulen and can still dish out more damage in under a few seconds than Lauriel or Krixi could dish out in twice that time. Yes her “Ult”was nerfed but I hope you never considered that as a significant skill in the first place.

So to negate the points:

1) If you actually use this skill or think you need to use this skill LMfAO. You are playing Liliana incorrectly already. This is a highly situational skill useful against 1v1ing tanks.

2) Liliana is a mage first so of course you are SUPPOSED TO PLAY HER PREDOMINATELY IN HER MAGE FORM. As mind blowing as this is I also would like to point out nothing about her blinking should be random. Her teleportation is killer in proper cover like grass and a panick button to escape hairy situations for anyone who is fairly new to her. On top of this her cooldown time rivals Lauriel for being really short (without Lauriel’s Ult ofc) making her a mobility queen (Flash has relatively long CD for his skills so Liliana actually has no real competition except for Tulen as a mage/Assassin).

You point about the stun is misplaced. Last I checked Liliana was not a CC mage and I would like to point out every (mage) character you mentioned with the exception of Veera are CC mages who specialize and have 2-4 skills that just stun....Azzen’Ka is a bad comparison since ALL of his skills stun, Omega is also an exception as a CC tank where HALF of his skills stun and have a CD of 1-2 sec. What liliana’s stun attack has above all of the aforementioned characters is fire rate meaning unless you are ambushed your stun will hit first.

You seem to be missing the point of why Liliana is still a top tier character. Individually her skills are about fair with some five and take on each of them, but all of them synergies nicely together and deal with certain weaknesses that it makes her a very veritile and OP hero.

I shouldn’t need to spell it out for you why your points are ironious when compared to less privileged hero’s who don’t sport 7+ skills (depending if you count the passive or not). I would also like to point out 2 out of 3 of her mobility skills (this rivals Nakroth for the most mobility skills in the game) also makes her temporarily untargetable/invincible to damage. Her first skill has burst damage on par with every other mages quick burst damage with a faster fire rate than some and a boost to her basic attack damage at the cost of a slightly higher CD than normal. Her stun has one of the fastest animation speeds on par with Murad’s stun and her melee swiping attack triggers twice when used.... (plus Liliana becomes slightly tankier as a fox so it’s great for surviving one or two basic attacks when running away using her 2 of 3 of her mobility skills).

I am going to point out that while you are correct in this case of Liliana being mage first assassin second, the stated class roles does not mean anything considering Joker counts as “Marksman Harass” while having more physical burst damage than some assassins (while he takes the ADC slot on a team you play against him or play with him as a ranged assassin). Another example of this is roxie being “Warrior/Tank” despite being more tanky than warrior like and dealing all MAGICAL damage.

If you think murad is the only one comparitively worse than Liliana, you missed Lauriel, Azzen’Ka, Ignis, Aleister, Diaochan, and Krixi for mages and Nakroth, Kriknack, and butterfly for assassins (there are probably a few I missed). If you would like to go outside the class ranges of mage/Assassin then we can add Omega, Lumburr, Alice, Wisp to this growing list.

Yes Liliana is tricky to play but she is easily one of the top hero’s in the game.
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